We have already fellowshipped some truths concerning God incarnate. Do you feel that fellowshipping on this aspect of the truth is helpful for knowing God? (Yes.) That’s good, then. We have fellowshipped a bit on this topic before, but we did not fellowship on it in detail, going item by item; rather, we fellowshipped on it in a piecemeal fashion. What we are fellowshipping on this time are the truths within the topic of God incarnate that involve man’s notions about God, as well as his attitudes toward God and his knowledge of God. For one thing, fellowshipping on these truths is so that man can understand and know God, and understand the truths involving his attitudes and viewpoints toward God that he must know. For another thing, it’s because these topics are very important. What makes them important? Well, man cannot see or touch the God in heaven and can barely even feel Him; the God in heaven is so far away from man. If one were to try to establish a relationship with God, it would be very hollow and nebulous for them. This hollowness and nebulousness is, on the one hand, due to man being full of notions and imaginings about God. On the other hand, it’s due to man having no understanding whatsoever of the realness and practicality of God, or of God’s identity and essence, and living entirely amid the notions and imaginings that grow out of his own wishful thinking. So, after man starts to follow God, the relationship he establishes with God is basically built upon his notions and imaginings, upon the foundation of his wishful thinking, and also upon his various demands of and desires for God. The relationship between man and God that is built upon this kind of foundation is very unstable, very insecure, and, of course, very unreliable. With the slightest rustle of the wind, or with the occurrence of some unusual situation, this kind of relationship can easily rupture, and it can easily be severed. For example, when man encounters things that don’t go as he wishes, when he encounters suffering, setbacks, and failures, or when he encounters all kinds of things that do not conform to his notions or serve his fleshly interests—when man is faced with any of these situations which he believes should not happen according to his notions—he will instinctively doubt God. He will doubt God’s existence, he will doubt whether the ways in which God holds sovereignty over man—and the ways in which God orchestrates and arranges things for him—are correct, and of course, he will doubt whether it is right for God to act this way, as well as whether or not God has some ulterior motives or ill intents toward man, and so on. In short, this kind of relationship between man and God is very unstable and insecure; in human terms, it’s full of uncertainty. Because this kind of relationship between man and God is built upon man’s notions and imaginings, and upon the foundation of the various demands man makes of God out of wishful thinking, no matter how great man feels his faith in God is, or how great he feels his resolve to follow God is, from God’s perspective, He does not recognize this kind of relationship. Of course, in terms of the objective facts, it is unstable; it can rupture or be severed anytime and anywhere, due to changes in all kinds of environments and various people, events, and things, as well as the emergence of various special situations. Even if one understands some truths, they will still doubt God when they do not understand or know Him. Even if they do not doubt God’s existence, they will still doubt what God’s aim is in acting this way toward them, and whether it is correct for Him to act this way. Therefore, it can be said that this relationship man establishes with God when he does not understand or know God cannot withstand any test, and that it can hardly withstand the tempering of any special environment. The cause of this is not that there are mistakes or inaccuracies in God’s sovereignty and arrangements, or that God is inconsiderate, failing to take into account man’s weaknesses or his various needs; rather, it’s that corrupt humans are inherently full of notions and imaginings about God. From the get-go, because man has corrupt dispositions, this relationship he has with God is not built upon the foundation of a normal relationship between a created being and the Creator. Thus, man takes the wrong stance and views and establishes his relationship with God using erroneous viewpoints, and he also uses erroneous thoughts and views, as well as erroneous methods, to maintain this relationship. In this way, this relationship between man and God becomes abnormal. Not only does it fail to help man better submit to God, His orchestrations, and His arrangements so as to meet God’s requirements for him, but it also makes God detest him and be repulsed by him, and even causes man to lose his chance to attain salvation. As man follows God for longer periods of time, as he understands more and more truths, and as he accumulates some capital and derives some experiences and lessons in the course of doing his duty, he increasingly feels that his relationship with God is correct and secure. However, in terms of man’s knowledge of God, this kind of relationship between man and God is still abnormal in God’s eyes. It still needs to be corrected and tested, and man still has to understand more truths and have a greater understanding and knowledge of God. Only in this way can the relationship between man and God truly be up to standard in God’s eyes, and of course, only then can man more accurately and rationally assume the position of a created being in how he treats the Creator, in how he treats God. Therefore, the truth regarding knowing the incarnate God—knowing the God on earth—is not some kind of academic knowledge or a type of common sense, much less is it a kind of theory or slogan. Rather, it is an aspect of the truth that man must understand in order to establish a normal relationship with God, to establish the relationship between a created being and the Creator. It is an aspect of the truth that involves knowing God’s essence, knowing the ways in which God works and speaks, and knowing the principles by which God does all kinds of things. Once man understands this aspect of the truth, knows the incarnate God, and has a basic understanding of God, he will establish a relationship with God that is the most proper and the most suitable—the relationship between a created being and the Creator. Only on the foundation of this sort of relationship will man’s pursuit of practicing the truth to satisfy God, and his pursuit of submitting to God and worshiping Him, develop in a positive direction; only then will man increasingly shun evil, and embark on the path of salvation.

Ponder this: If one has no knowledge of God whatsoever—that is, although they believe in God, they are full of notions and imaginings about the principles and ways by which God does things, and His purpose in doing them, and they’re full of notions and imaginings about the specific details of how God does all kinds of things—then when they encounter various things, how will they approach them? How will they seek the truth? What will their basis be? What will their principles be? What will their goals be? These are not simple questions. If one is full of notions and imaginings about God, and doesn’t have the slightest understanding of the principles and ways by which God does things, and doesn’t understand at all what His purpose in doing all kinds of things is, and they treat God entirely based on human notions and imaginings, traditional culture, and knowledge-based reasoning, can they come to know and submit to God? (No.) If one’s pursuit of knowing God is on the whole based on human notions and imaginings, knowledge and philosophy, and traditional culture, and their pursuit is built upon this foundation and restricted by these things, wouldn’t this pursuit be very far from meeting God’s requirements? Wouldn’t it be running counter to what God requires? (Yes.) Once you understand these aspects—the normality and practicality of God incarnate; the principles and ways by which He speaks and acts; and the purpose, motives, and goals behind His speaking and acting—through fellowship, you will have a basic understanding of the principles and ways by which God works and speaks, as well as His purpose in doing so. This understanding does not come from man’s notions and imaginings about God, nor is it something man deduces based on his knowledge, much less is it something man imagines based on traditional culture; rather, it consists of the eminently practical manifestations of the God on earth that man sees, comes into contact with, and experiences. The principles and ways by which God incarnate speaks and acts—as well as His purpose in doing so—which He exhibits in wholly practical ways, are more than enough to allow you to understand and know God’s essence and disposition, as well as the specific principles and ways by which God acts, works, and speaks, along with His purpose in doing so. Therefore, understanding the various aspects of God incarnate is a pathway to understanding God—the Creator. Although knowing the incarnate God cannot lead to a complete and comprehensive knowledge of the Creator, at the very least, knowing the incarnate God is a pathway to knowing the God in heaven and knowing the Creator. What is My aim in telling you these things? Although understanding and knowing God are things man must spend his whole life trying to learn, and although man cannot know God completely and thoroughly even if he devotes a lifetime of effort, through coming to know the incarnate God, you will understand the God in heaven and the Creator in a more practical way, with more precision and objectivity—this is enough. That is, it is sufficient for you to understand and know God through knowing the incarnate God; that’s already enough to satisfy the conditions for you to know God and establish a normal relationship with Him. Knowing the incarnate God is sufficient to allow you to come to know the God in heaven and the Creator.

If one wanted to know the God in heaven completely, hoping to obtain a full, comprehensive knowledge of Him, would that be possible? (No.) They would never be able to accomplish that. Since this is impossible, why is man still asked to know God? Because, if you can know God accurately and practically, this is beneficial and helpful for you in following God, pursuing the truth, and coming to fear God and shun evil. In addition, knowing God is extremely crucial and important for you to practice the truth and attain salvation. So what should you do? (We should attach importance to the truths concerning knowing God. We should not try to understand this aspect of the truth as if it were just an ordinary truth.) For one thing, you must treat the incarnate God with a correct attitude. Additionally, you must examine what notions and imaginings you have about the incarnate God and about God, and find out how to let go of them. In your interactions and associations with God, whether in daily life, in the course of doing your duty, or as you experience your life, you should examine what notions and imaginings you have about God, and whether your attitude toward God has these two problems: One is comparing the incarnate God with the God in heaven, and the other is putting the incarnate God on a par with corrupt humankind. Examining these two problems can enable you to recognize some of your notions and imaginings about God, or discover what problems there are between you and God; or, it can also allow you to uncover some of your incorrect thoughts and views and incorrect attitudes toward God. The point of examining yourself like this is to help you clearly recognize your various erroneous thoughts, views, and attitudes regarding God, so that you can relinquish them, and treat God’s words, God’s work, and God Himself with correct thoughts and views, with a correct attitude, and in the correct ways. Only by practicing in this way can the relationship between you and God gradually become normal and satisfy God—right? (Yes.) If you practice in this way, your relationship with God will gradually develop based on the relationship between a created being and the Creator, and upon the foundation of the standard God requires of man. Only after meeting this standard can the relationship between man and God become increasingly normal. What does “normal” refer to here? Do you know? (It means that man can better assume the position of a created being in how he treats the Creator. He no longer has any guardedness and suspicion toward God, but is able to treat God with openness and honesty.) Does anyone else have something to add? (After someone’s relationship with God becomes normal, not only are they no longer guarded or suspicious toward God, but they also no longer make demands of God, have no extravagant desires, and can truly submit to God’s orchestrations and arrangements.) You hit the nail on the head. The ultimate manifestation seen in people who attain salvation is that they can stand in the proper position of a created being and submit to the Creator. When man submits to God, he truly worships God; only by truly worshiping God can he attain a fear of God, and truly come to fear God and shun evil. Therefore, when it comes to the kind of relationship man has with God, or the kind of relationship he establishes with God, what does it depend on? It depends on man’s pursuit and his attitude toward God, and on how much he knows God. If you have no knowledge of God, and are full of notions and imaginings about Him, and extravagant desires for Him, then even if you can practice some truths and do some duties that a created being ought to do, as far as your relationship with God is concerned, the duties you do or the truths you practice are very limited. For example, in doing your duty, you are able to forsake things and expend yourself, and suffer and pay a price, or you can do some work that’s within your capabilities in the church. But when God does things to you that do not conform to your notions, or when He deprives you, or chastens and disciplines you, are you able to submit? If you have a genuine understanding and knowledge of God, you will very naturally assume the position of a created being and have an attitude of submission. But if you do not have a genuine understanding and knowledge of God, when you’re confronted with things that don’t go as you wish, or when you face things that involve your personal interests, you will very naturally develop all kinds of ideas and all kinds of notions and imaginings about God. In this way, it will be very difficult for you, as a created being, to attain true submission to God. Even if you have some superficial submission or a willingness to submit, if it does not conform to God’s requirements, then this submission of yours is not what God wants. If this submission of yours stems entirely from human notions and imaginings, conflicts with your knowledge of God and of God’s work, and violates the truth principles, then it is an adulterated submission; it is not true submission, and it is not the submission God wants. God does not approve of such submission. In His eyes, you are entirely devoid of submission. If you are unable to genuinely submit to God, then what that means is that your so-called “pursuit” and so-called “practice of the truth” have fundamentally failed to help you establish a relationship with God that is a relationship between a created being and the Creator. In most of what you do, you are living amid your personal wishes, notions, and imaginings, which cannot gain God’s approval. Not gaining God’s approval ultimately leads to one thing: What you do and what you practice fall far short of what God requires, and you live amid your own wishful thinking, or amid your notions and imaginings. In the end, what you do and practice, and the path you walk, will not be able to lead you to embark on the path of salvation and attain salvation. Then won’t your actions have been in vain? (Yes.) Under these circumstances, your actions will have been in vain. Then won’t you basically have gained nothing from your belief in God all these years? (Yes.) What is the reason for having gained nothing? (People walk the path of believing in God while always living amid their personal wishes, notions, and imaginings.) The fact that you gain nothing after believing in God for many years is not because you have not paid a price, have been unwilling to endure hardship, or have been unwilling to expend yourself, much less is it because you have not done your duty. Rather, what is the reason? It’s that, in the course of suffering and paying a price, forsaking things and expending yourself, and doing your duty, most of what you do is only done as a result of your wishful thinking, and you do it while you’re living amid your notions and imaginings, rather than acting according to God’s requirements. Yet you always believe that you are acting according to God’s requirements. Because this belief of yours is full of notions, you ultimately fail to gain the truth and achieve the result of attaining salvation. All your actions, then, were in vain. If someone ultimately reaches this point, wouldn’t you say that’s quite lamentable? (Yes.) On the surface, it seems that people have been doing their duties, preaching God’s words, and suffering and paying a price, but in fact, they’ve been following and serving God while having many notions and imaginings, and many incorrect thoughts, views, and attitudes. If you do your duty with these adulterations, ultimately, when God tests you, you won’t know why God acts this way, or what God expects of you and what result He intends to achieve in you by testing you like this. In the end, when God tests you, the words you say to God and your prayers will be full of complaints, incomprehension, and doubt, and even full of sadness and pain, and notions and imaginings about God. Then won’t your pursuit all this time have resulted in failure, and won’t the suffering you endured and the price you paid have been in vain? (Yes.) For example, let’s say you’ve believed in God for many years and have always endured hardship and paid a price; you have outwardly done everything God told you to do and held fast to these words. But one day, a trial like Job’s comes upon you, and you suddenly become doubtful: “Could my belief be wrong? Could I be walking the wrong path? Why would God set up an environment like this for me? Why would God do this kind of work on me? Why would He let such a thing happen to me?” You don’t understand, and don’t know what’s going on. For one thing, subjectively, there is a lot you don’t understand. Additionally, what is the biggest problem people have? When they encounter all manner of things, all they know to do is pray and seek to extricate themselves from these situations. Those who are a bit better will try to know themselves to figure out whether they have offended God, whether God is disciplining them, whether there is anything about themselves that does not accord with God’s intentions, or whether their actions and deeds have earned themselves God’s loathing. However, when most people encounter such things, they don’t know—in a positive sense—how to proactively do their part for God’s work and cooperate with God, how to practice according to the principles a created being ought to follow or according to the Creator’s instructions, or how to proactively seek a path of practice and the truth principles to resolve the problem at hand. This is beyond most people. Isn’t this so? (Yes.) You see, when people encounter things, they try to find causes in different places—they may look to themselves, they may try to find objective causes, they may try to come up with some excuses they can use to argue and justify themselves, or they may suspect other people and look to them for causes. But very rarely does anyone come before God to proactively seek the truth principles and proactively resolve the problem. Ultimately, when God gets rid of the situation or the environment people are facing, how much can people gain? Most people only know that they must be careful the next time they encounter such things, and they only know how to avoid or neutralize these things when there are signs that they might come up again. But very few people ponder how they should proactively cooperate when they encounter such things, how to practice according to the principles God tells people, and how to resolve the problem according to the truth principles. This is not easy for most people to do, right? (Yes.)